Another Loose Sprocket Nut

[Guest]

<!--quoteo(post=43784:date=Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM:name=ChrisG)-->QUOTE(ChrisG @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->My main worry is torquing it up to 70NM, if the thread is already damaged there's presumably going to be a risk of it jumping a thread, will it still need to go that tight if I've got locktite everywhere? I've ordered 2 new nuts from Fowlers from just in case I do trash one by overtorquing it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Hard to say, although when I came to change my DRZ front sprocket I reckon it could have done without the nut altogetherh and not budged.

As the shaft is case hardened its more than likely just damaged the threads in the 'soft' nut.
I afraid its a case of suck it and see.

[Guinness]

<!--quoteo(post=43784:date=Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM:name=ChrisG)-->QUOTE(ChrisG @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->-//- and I bet it pisses down with rain on Sunday<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->yes...

unless you live very near the south coast...
edit: strike that... wont stay dry anywhere in UK on sunday...
(but that still long way to go)

[ChrisG]

<!--quoteo(post=43790:date=Tue 12th Jun 2007, 08:10 PM:name=GuyGraham)-->QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->As the shaft is case hardened its more than likely just damaged the threads in the 'soft' nut.
I afraid its a case of suck it and see.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It must have damaged the shaft slightly, as the nut will turn but won't come off. I'm gonna cut it off rather than risk damaging the threads further by trying to pull it off.


<!--quoteo(post=43793:date=Tue 12th Jun 2007, 08:21 PM:name=Guinness)-->QUOTE(Guinness @ Tue 12th Jun 2007, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->yes...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Bugger

BBC 5 day forcast is sunny intervals on Friday and light showers on Saturday, so you can garentee that won't be what the weathers like.

This post was last modified: 12-06-2007, 07:42 PM by ChrisG.

[Guinness]

might be if ya ride down to Cornwall on saturday.
but elsewhere... "light"? yeah, if ya catch the edge of the shower

[TonyDevil]

GG, i'm planning on getting the sprocket nut welded on this evening, but still not convinced.

the output shaft thread is obviously slightly damaged from the previous problems
i've used 638 on the nut
do you reckon this will be enough to hold it on?

if this holds it on and i just have to use a bit of locktite at each C&S change i'm not fussed
if i weld now its gotta be rebuilt later, which i dont really have the space or knowledge to do

ooooooh to be decisive

[Guest]

Have you had a chance to try yer new enjin?

[TonyDevil]

<!--quoteo(post=43876:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 11:08 AM:name=Emmett)-->QUOTE(Emmett @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Have you had a chance to try yer new enjin?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nope

its still sat on the back seat of the car, never take an engine out before
also my garage has a dirt floor and no power or lighting so i'm kinda relying on using my mates garage and his time

havent got time to change it and test it before the RTT

[nhstedium]

<!--quoteo(post=43880:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 11:14 AM:name=Toneski)-->QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->nope

its still sat on the back seat of the car, never take an engine out before
also my garage has a dirt floor and no power or lighting so i'm kinda relying on using my mates garage and his time

havent got time to change it and test it before the RTT <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


S'easy but make sure you take your time and KNOW where everything goes, plastic tubs are good for the bolts and a wee camera to take photo's at each stage of removal , I didn't do that with my XT when I stripped it down and what a pain in the arse it was to put back together

[Guest]

<!--quoteo(post=43871:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 10:59 AM:name=Toneski)-->QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->GG, i'm planning on getting the sprocket nut welded on this evening, but still not convinced.

the output shaft thread is obviously slightly damaged from the previous problems
i've used 638 on the nut
do you reckon this will be enough to hold it on?

if this holds it on and i just have to use a bit of locktite at each C&S change i'm not fussed
if i weld now its gotta be rebuilt later, which i dont really have the space or knowledge to do

ooooooh to be decisive
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


the problem sounds to me to be not the nut loosening, but loss of clamping presure due to wear from the roockin gof the sprocket back and forth on the shaft.
Just applying loctite to the nut will not stop this as the nut is not moving
You need to immobilze the sporcoket to prevent the wear on the clamping faces and hence loss of clamping pressure applied by the nut. This will require loctite on the splines on the shaft

[TonyDevil]

thnx folks

gonna leave the weld for now, can always do that later
lets see if the locktite does the job

[ebiff2k]

with out removing the sprocket cover is there any signs of a loose nut?

[TonyDevil]

<!--quoteo(post=43904:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:13 PM:name=Chris TDM)-->QUOTE(Chris TDM @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->with out removing the sprocket cover is there any signs of a loose nut?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nope, only when the sprocket falls off

not enough space to put your finger in from the side or underneath so cover has to come off

[ebiff2k]

<!--quoteo(post=43905:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:15 PM:name=Toneski)-->QUOTE(Toneski @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->nope, only when the sprocket falls off

not enough space to put your finger in from the side or underneath so cover has to come off<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

balls, i better go and give it the once over then.

[cwaltmil]

Just thinking about welding on the output shaft, do you think there is a chance you will damage the heat treatment of the shaft and lead to it breaking off? Don't think I would risk it. Is the sprocket too thin causing the nut to thread on past most of the threads on the shaft? If so, can you add shims behind the sprocket without it getting too much out of line with the rear?

[TonyDevil]

<!--quoteo(post=43907:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM:name=Walt_M.)-->QUOTE(Walt_M. @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just thinking about welding on the output shaft, do you think there is a chance you will damage the heat treatment of the shaft and lead to it breaking off? Don't think I would risk it. Is the sprocket too thin causing the nut to thread on past most of the threads on the shaft? If so, can you add shims behind the sprocket without it getting too much out of line with the rear?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heat transfer could be a problem, but it would only need a couple of small spots (or so i'm told) so should be ok.
the sprocket is supposedly the same dimensions as standard, but i've gone back to using yammie front sprocket
you could probably pad it out, but i dont see how that would help, better off having a 2nd washer on the outside
there isnt enough room for a 2nd nut tho

[Guest]

<!--quoteo(post=43906:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM:name=Chris TDM)-->QUOTE(Chris TDM @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->balls, i better go and give it the once over then.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Only seems to affect mkI's (correct?) and you have a MkII

<!--quoteo(post=43907:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM:name=Walt_M.)-->QUOTE(Walt_M. @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Just thinking about welding on the output shaft, do you think there is a chance you will damage the heat treatment of the shaft and lead to it breaking off? Don't think I would risk it. Is the sprocket too thin causing the nut to thread on past most of the threads on the shaft? If so, can you add shims behind the sprocket without it getting too much out of line with the rear?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


the shaft will be case hardened and if you weld the nut to the sprocket you are nowhere near the shaft.
welding the nut to the sprocket means the nut can't come off.

[wicklamulla]

<!--quoteo(post=43929:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 06:14 PM:name=GuyGraham)-->QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Only seems to affect mkI's (correct?) and you have a MkII
the shaft will be case hardened and if you weld the nut to the sprocket you are nowhere near the shaft.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><!--/coloro-->welding the nut to the sprocket means the nut can't come off.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


that sounds like its going to simplify tings as surely then it's just a case of tasking a cutting disc to the nut and sprocket to remove them ??

[ChrisG]

If the problem is the sprocket wobbling about and wearing then welding the sprocket to the nut probably makes more sense than welding the nut to the shaft. I'm gonna go with GG's idea and threadlock everything.

2 new sprocket nuts and washers waiting for me when I got home, not bad service from Fowlers, I only phoned them yesterday. That's Saturday booke up then.


Who else has had this problem? Tony and I are both on Mk1's, anyone had it on a Mk2?

[Guest]

<!--quoteo(post=43938:date=Wed 13th Jun 2007, 07:11 PM:name=ChrisG)-->QUOTE(ChrisG @ Wed 13th Jun 2007, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I
Who else has had this problem? Tony and I are both on Mk1's, anyone had it on a Mk2?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


2 MkII's and I've not had this problem

This post was last modified: 13-06-2007, 06:36 PM by GuyGraham.

[TonyDevil]

the thread on my output shaft is already damaged from when the sprocket jumped the first time
when it came loose in Germany it didnt turn
it just pulled over the thread, even tho it was torqued correctly

welding the nut to the sprocket wont help in my case, coz it would just pull the sprocket off with it
sounds like this is what has happened to chrisg too
locktite or welding nut to shaft are only choices other than a rebuild