My Clutch

[Stratman]

You may recall that Yamaha refused to replace the clutch as 15,000 miles in two years was "excessive mileage". I wrote to them and received this response:-

"Thank you for your recent letter regarding your machine and we are sorry to hear of your disappointment with our decIsion concerning a claim received, in relation to the clutch.

Naturally, it is always disappointing to hear of a customer who has experienced a problem with their Yamaha product, especially in crrcumstances where they may be faced with necessary reparr costs.

As you may appreciate, it is difficult for us to assess or resolve any concerns a customer may have, without, having had sight of the machine in question and we are therefore necessarily reliant upon our dealer network to carry out an inspection, on our behalf,

We have in thiis instance, spoken with the inspecting deater, Tinkler's Motorcycles Ltd who has advised, that in their opinion while your TDM's clutch at the recorded mileage of 15,611 was worn, there are no signs to Indicate any manufacturing defect.

Additionally, we have also referred to our Technical Service Department on your behalf, who having checked their records, are unaware of any undue concerns with worn clutch plates on the TDM900 model, in general.

We would at this point also mention that a clutch, being a frictional component, has no definitive lifespan and its longevity will inevitably vary from one machine to another, dependant on general usage, rather than just mileage alone. In terms of any possible warrantable assistance in relation to a clutch repair therefore, we would advlse this to usually only be appficable to machines which are in the early stages of their life.

In view of the above, along with the fact that your TDM900 is approximately two years old, we regret that on this occasion our original decision must remain.

Whilst we appreciate that you may again be disappointed, we also hope that you may understand our position..

Yours sincerely,
YAMAHA MOTOR (UK) LTD

Don Manley
Customer Service Co-ordinator
Customer Service Department "

To which I have just replied:-

"Thank you for your letter dated 20th November in which you anticipated my disappointment.

Interestingly you point out the mileage of the machine, which, on an unlimited mileage warranty, I see as irrelevant, bearing in mind I am not claiming for normal wear and tear anyway.

Also, your 2 year warranty seems to expire in arbitrary stages as you point out that the machine is nearly two years old but you may have considered a replacement earlier on; I thought a warranty was a contractual matter and not one of goodwill?

Given the nature of this complaint and the fact that I am extremely busy, your letter has had the desired effect of putting me off and I can’t be bothered to pursue any other course of action.

I also propose never to purchase a Yamaha machine again and will explain my reasons to as many fellow motorcyclists as I can."

Which is what I am doing right now!

[robelst]

I understand your disappointment (low mileage for a clutch under normal circumstancs), but clutch-plates are wearing components and are normally not covered unless a dealer has structurally ignored- or mis-adjusted the free play on the cable, or used the wrong oil for example.

I had my clutch renewed free of charge on my BMW R1100RT three times (the 3rd time when the bike was already 2 years outside the warranty-period) but that was part of an embarrassng series of defects, mostly involving leaking oil-seals and poor design, so that's different I suppose.

If you really want criminal customer service, buy a Buell: I almost crashed on the motorway when the front engine mount desintegrated, partly dropping the engine from the frame. You'd expect a worried manufacturer, a free recovery and repair, humble excuses, a basket of fruit perhaps, but no: Harley/Buell refused every responsibility because the bike was 3 weeks out of warranty. I also received legal threats when I published this on several forums. And I do it again here

[dapleb]

What was your "claim" about the clutch Stratman? You say you are not claiming for normal wear and tear, so what are you claiming for? Can you link to a previous thread as I don't recall any previous thread?

EDIT: found it: http://www.carpe-tdm.net/ipb/index.php?sho...ic=1980&hl= , what did the Yamaha dealers note when they examined the clutch?

Boop
dapleb

This post was last modified: 30-11-2006, 05:31 PM by dapleb.

[dandywarhol]

Did they actually check the clutch basket or just report on the plates??

[ROB1]

as to the point about telling others of the crap yam warranty,10 years or more ago the AA left me stranded at the side of the road with a puncture the reason being the direct debit hadnt been taken out of my account.they wouldnt accept my offer of a fee over the fone they just wernt bothered.i got the tyre fixed myself and to this day i have never used the AA again & tell folk the same story. Unfortunately mud sticks

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23310:date=Thu 30th Nov 2006, 05:14 PM:name=dapleb)-->QUOTE(dapleb @ Thu 30th Nov 2006, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->What was your "claim" about the clutch Stratman? You say you are not claiming for normal wear and tear, so what are you claiming for? Can you link to a previous thread as I don't recall any previous thread?

EDIT: found it: http://www.carpe-tdm.net/ipb/index.php?sho...ic=1980&hl= , what did the Yamaha dealers note when they examined the clutch?

Boop
dapleb<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, so it's the basket, no the plates. I don't feel a basket should wear in 15k. The only bike I ever owned suffering from this was a Honda Africa Twin, which is known for this problem, and that was at 45k.

And 15k "excessive" mileage? How ridiculous, I have done over 30k per year for a period of 7 years as a contractor on BMW, Honda and Ducati (believe it or not, 66k on an ST4s ) and never had warranty issues with anyone.

It's frustrating enough bikes are considered toys rather than tools by some, but if bike manufacturers themselves start hiding themselves behind this argument things are really looking grim and sad. I mean, you can buy the cheapest pathetic car on the market and the clutch will last you 100 - 150k hands down. And it won't rot at the first of winter either

[unclesumo]

<!--quoteo(post=23321:date=Thu 30th Nov 2006, 08:38 PM:name=ROB1)-->QUOTE(ROB1 @ Thu 30th Nov 2006, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->as to the point about telling others of the crap yam warranty,10 years or more ago the AA left me stranded at the side of the road with a puncture the reason being the direct debit hadnt been taken out of my account.they wouldnt accept my offer of a fee over the fone they just wernt bothered.i got the tyre fixed myself and to this day i have never used the AA again & tell folk the same story. Unfortunately mud sticks<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

My Dad had similar with the RAC. He'd been a member for about 30 years. When he bought a Jag the owners club were doing a deal with the RAC so he renewed through them. He flew back from a lecture tour one night in the middle of winter & found the car had a flat battery. Rang the Rac & the Jag owners club hadnt paid them so they wouldnt come out, even when he offered to pay the guy in full if they sent someone, but they still wouldnt. Bear in mind there was snow on the ground & Dad was nearly 70 at the time! Tossers. Everythings about profit these days, no one seems to give a toss about customer service anymore.

[Stratman]

<!--quoteo(post=23326:date=Thu 30th Nov 2006, 11:56 PM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Thu 30th Nov 2006, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ah, so it's the basket, no the plates. I don't feel a basket should wear in 15k. The only bike I ever owned suffering from this was a Honda Africa Twin, which is known for this problem, and that was at 45k.

And 15k "excessive" mileage? How ridiculous, I have done over 30k per year for a period of 7 years as a contractor on BMW, Honda and Ducati (believe it or not, 66k on an ST4s ) and never had warranty issues with anyone.

It's frustrating enough bikes are considered toys rather than tools by some, but if bike manufacturers themselves start hiding themselves behind this argument things are really looking grim and sad. I mean, you can buy the cheapest pathetic car on the market and the clutch will last you 100 - 150k hands down. And it won't rot at the first of winter either <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Funny you should say that - my 98 1800 Mondeo has done 151,000 miles and its on the original clutch, exhaust and alternator etc!

[duibhceK]

how about this little fairy tale for a service story:

there once was a man that took his brand new BMW R1200RT out for a nice long spin around the Ardennes. After a while he notices that the rear starts feeling wobbly so he stops at a gas station and checks the tyre pressure. Pressure is down to 1.6bar. After inflating the tire again he starts looking for punctures and indeed after a while he notices a tiny puncture in the tire. Not a problem, with his brand spanking new RT came a free 'BMW Service Card' especially for helping him out with break downs along the road.

It is now 6PM. He calls the number on the card and the nice lady at the other side says they will send someone to change his tire with the spare. He explains to the lady he rides a motorcycle and it didn't come with a spare tire. Not a problem, replies the lady, we'll send a tow truck to pick up your bike. The man suggests that that may not be necessary, the tire can easily be temporarily repaired with a plug so he can get home and have the tire permanently fixed or replaced. The lady tells him she will send someone who will take a look at it and decide what to do.

One hour later a tow truck arrives. The tow guy wants to know where he needs to take the bike. The man again suggest a temporary fix with a plug but the tow guy replies BMW does not allow anyone else than an official BMW dealer to do repairs to the bikes. He has to take the bike to the closest dealer, which is in Bastogne. The man decides to check with the BMW service desk whether this dealer is opened on Saturday and how he is suppused to get there himself. The nice lady tells him that the dealer is closed but they can take the bike to a dealer of his choice and he will receive a replacement car to get back home. He tries to suggest one last time to just plug the puncture but the lady says this is not an option. Getting a bit annoyed with all the hassle for a stupid thing as a punctured tire, the man decides to let the bike be taken to his regular BMW dealer back home and accepts the offer of a replacement car which will be delivered to him within the hour.

After two more calls to BMW, promising him a swift delivery the car finally arrives at 11PM. He drives home and the next morning contacts his dealer. His bike hasn't been delivered yet. But the car needs to be delivered to his dealer by Monday 8PM at the latest. Unfortunately the dealer has his weekly closing day on Monday. Luckily the dealer is a nice guy and he offers one of his own replacement bikes so the car can already be left at the dealer today.

And all this for a simple punctured tire... But it's not over yet. On Tuesday the doorbell rings.

- good day sir, I came to deliver your bike.
+ has the tire been repaired?
- no sir, we are not allowed to do that.
+ ok, but this is not a BMW dealership, is it?
- this is the address I was told to deliver the bike.
+ yes, this is where I live, but I'm not going to fix the bike myself
- OK sir, shall I take the bike to a dealer than?
+ off course
- where is this dealer?
+ *sigh* follow me, I'll take you there

The dealer can't even believe the story he is told, but the bike gets put on the work bridge and while the man isn't even finished pointing out where the hole is, one of the lads at the workshop has already plugged it. A bit of extra air into the tire and done.

The bike was picked up near Durbuy, taken to Bastogne and than to the depot in Houffalize. Then from the depot to the man's house in Bruges and from Bruges some 20 km to the dealer. Add to that the replacement car which is still standing outside the dealer's and this must have been one expensive plug for BMW.



For the record: the man wasn't me, but a friend I occasionally ride with. He is very pleased with his RT and with his dealer, but he won't be calling the BMW service desk any time soon for a minor problem...

[Stratman]

What a brilliant story - these types of things happen ocassionally and you start thinking "is it me?"

[tdm850rider]

That explains why BMW's are expensive, they need the extra money to subsidise their service desk.

[robelst]

Well, at least no effort is being spared by BWM to help out their customers.
And don't forget this all happened in Belgium


At least it's better than this when I phoned the Buell help line:
-> "Hello, I just stopped at the petrol station and now the bike won't start anymore"
<- "No worries sir, what model Harley do you have?"
-> "Actually it's a Buell, a Cyclone"
<- "Sorry, I didn't get that"
-> "A Buell Cyclone"
<- "Sorry, but you have reached the Harley Davidson helpline, we don't have anything to do with, errm, whatever brand you mentioned just now"
-> "Buells is a Harley Davidson brand, manufactured, sold and serviced by one and the same company"
<- "Sorry, I can't help you"
-> "Listen, it's bloody cold here and want to go home. I have my warranty-card here with all my details on it. I will give you the VIN number so you can look me up on your system"
<- "Sorry sir, your <i>what</i> number?"

Then my phone ran out of credit because the stingy buggers from customer-service use a special rate phone line to "assist" their customers.

In the end, I found the starter relay under the seat, wiggled it a bit, fired up the bike, went home and never bothered contacting them again.

This post was last modified: 01-12-2006, 01:22 PM by robelst.

[duibhceK]

<!--quoteo(post=23369:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 02:05 PM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And don't forget this all happened in Belgium <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

are you implying something here, rob?

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23373:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 01:14 PM:name=duibhce Kaelann)-->QUOTE(duibhce Kaelann @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->are you implying something here, rob?

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I lived in Holland for 7 years while working part-time in Belgium (in the bleak town of Merksem, near lovely Antwerp). I really liked the Belgian people and the food is beyond compare, but I suspect the people responsible for the the roads, railways and city-council planning-authoritiy are probably the very same characters that organise BMW's service control center

This post was last modified: 01-12-2006, 01:51 PM by robelst.

[duibhceK]

<!--quoteo(post=23375:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 02:35 PM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->but I suspect the people responsible for the the roads, railways and city-council planning-authoritiy are probably the very same characters that organise BMW's service control center <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

unfortunately, I'd have to agree on that one

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23376:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 01:37 PM:name=duibhce Kaelann)-->QUOTE(duibhce Kaelann @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->unfortunately, I'd have to agree on that one

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Luckily things are a lot better over here in the UK.


Well, actually it isn't, but that never stopped us blaming Belgium

[duibhceK]

<!--quoteo(post=23379:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 03:46 PM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Well, actually it isn't, but that never stopped us blaming Belgium <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

don't worry about it, we usually blame the Germans or the Dutch...
or when it's an internal matter, the Walloons