Valve tapping and backfiring

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23112:date=Tue 28th Nov 2006, 01:45 PM:name=Ashton Masher)-->QUOTE(Ashton Masher @ Tue 28th Nov 2006, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Mine ticks as well, started at about 7000 miles and has gotten prgressively worse, on 13000 miles now. I haven't had any back firing or trouble starting so I don't think it's the clearances and the noise does get worse when the engine is warm, but I am told <b>'they all do that'</b>.

I changed the cam chain tensioner (£45) easy to do, but still no better. (If ticking sounds are coming from the right side it's probably this.) I am starting to think that the cam chain itself is the source of the noise. Earplugs cure the problem completely!

It's driving me crackers though and I'm on the point of taking it to aYamaha Dealer for an opinion! <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds very familiar: rattling getting worse when warm, clearly coming from the right-hand side. Both these facts point to distribution, not valves. I was planning a tensioner replacement too, but think I'll back off now. And replacing the distribution chain more often than the drive chain seems a bit over the top as well

As a Buell-, Honda-, XT600 and ex-BMW owner I have learned to live with "normal" mechanical noises. Actually, if a BMW boxer runs silently, it usually means the valves are about to burn out. I just didn't expect it from this otherwise so smoothly running powerplant.

Ah well. I think I choose not to worry about it, life's too short

[Tarmac]

Don't want to add even more confusion to the thread, but it could also be a noisy injector . . . .

You're right, why worry, some after market cans and ear plugs should disguise the noise until something seriously goes twang!

[Big Bird]

<!--quoteo(post=22316:date=Mon 20th Nov 2006, 09:27 PM:name=Harry Axewound)-->QUOTE(Harry Axewound @ Mon 20th Nov 2006, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->- started backfiring when I start her up, ..... and fook, what a bang, woke up a few of the neightbours dogs!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mine will backfire maybe once in 50 or so starts. Did it this morning in fact, and it left a lovely black ring on the garage wall . Hopefully it woke up the two lads in the upstairs flat who kept me awake until 1am with their bedroom games

[dandywarhol]

<!--quoteo(post=23156:date=Tue 28th Nov 2006, 09:53 PM:name=Big Bird)-->QUOTE(Big Bird @ Tue 28th Nov 2006, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Mine will backfire maybe once in 50 or so starts. Did it this morning in fact, and it left a lovely black ring on the garage wall . Hopefully it woke up the two lads in the upstairs flat who kept me awake until 1am with their bedroom games <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Maybe one of the lads upstairs has a lovely black ring too........................

[Big Bird]

<!--quoteo(post=23170:date=Wed 29th Nov 2006, 10:06 AM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Wed 29th Nov 2006, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Maybe one of the lads upstairs has a lovely black ring too........................<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Judging by the amount of noise they make I wouldn't be at all suprised

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23151:date=Tue 28th Nov 2006, 08:15 PM:name=Ashton Masher)-->QUOTE(Ashton Masher @ Tue 28th Nov 2006, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Don't want to add even more confusion to the thread, but it could also be a noisy injector . . . . <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not on the 850
I know from my Honda what horrible noises fuel pumps can produce but it's not that either.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE<!--quotec-->You're right, why worry, some after market cans and ear plugs should disguise the noise until something seriously goes twang!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends, if the noise is not untypical for this model it doesn't seem sensible to open up the engine at only 30k. I've done that too often in the past on several bikes, spent whole weekends and a lot of money on replacing clutch baskets, distribution- and primary chains, tappet-bushes, oil-pump drives, tensioners and what have you, usually just to hear the noise returning within a few thousand miles.

Obviously I will keep an eye (ear) on it, but if it doesn't get worse I'll just carry on.

[Tarmac]

<!--quoteo(post=23192:date=Wed 29th Nov 2006, 09:41 AM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Wed 29th Nov 2006, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not on the 850
I know from my Honda what horrible noises fuel pumps can produce but it's not that either.

Depends, if the noise is not untypical for this model it doesn't seem sensible to open up the engine at only 30k. I've done that too often in the past on several bikes, spent whole weekends and a lot of money on replacing clutch baskets, distribution- and primary chains, tappet-bushes, oil-pump drives, tensioners and what have you, usually just to hear the noise returning within a few thousand miles.

Obviously I will keep an eye (ear) on it, but if it doesn't get worse I'll just carry on.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

After saying my bikes not backfiring I got a couple of small backfires on the way home from work yesterday. I'm going to service the bugger over the Christmas holidays, change plugs and synchronise the throttle bodies and see how it runs then! If it's still rattling after that the tempatation to have it in bits will be too great!

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23289:date=Thu 30th Nov 2006, 10:20 AM:name=Ashton Masher)-->QUOTE(Ashton Masher @ Thu 30th Nov 2006, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->After saying my bikes not backfiring I got a couple of small backfires on the way home from work yesterday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe your bike reads this forum as well and felt left out

I just found some interesting looking tips on checking and setting the TDM's chain-tensioner. Apparently (and not surprisingly of course) the position needed to correctly tie up the chain is a measure for wear. Also, it's not uncommon the tensioner can get sticky and even blocked (!), inspiring ignorant dealers to replace all bits at ridiculously low mileages and happily cash-in, while 50-70k miles should easily be achievable.

I will have a go at this soon and let you know if/how it helps

[dandywarhol]

<!--quoteo(post=23330:date=Thu 30th Nov 2006, 11:19 PM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Thu 30th Nov 2006, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Maybe your bike reads this forum as well and felt left out

I just found some interesting looking tips on checking and setting the TDM's chain-tensioner. Apparently (and not surprisingly of course) the position needed to correctly tie up the chain is a measure for wear. Also, it's not uncommon the tensioner can get sticky and even blocked (!), inspiring ignorant dealers to replace all bits at ridiculously low mileages and happily cash-in, while 50-70k miles should easily be achievable.

I will have a go at this soon and let you know if/how it helps <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Looking forward to your findings robelst....................I'd enough of a scare with camchain rattle to pull it apart during last summers eurotrip (see Daplebs blog for all the incompetant details )

[wicklamulla]

<!--quoteo(post=23170:date=Tue 28th Nov 2006, 11:06 PM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Tue 28th Nov 2006, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Maybe one of the lads upstairs has a lovely black ring too........................<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


and ride 900's as well as each udder........

[Axewound]

Having spent a bit of time ridng the bike leaning off at all angles to listen to the infamous ticking from the engine, I correct myself, and say ticking is from the left-handside (when on bike) and also can be heard quite well when listening down the hole where the forks go down. So it probably is valve ticking after all

Now, since I talked about backfiring, there has been a lot less of it, untill this morning !! When I started her this morning I didn't even think about any backfiring, what a mistake, cos this mornings was its bestest and loudest so far - Scared the living shites out of me, even stopped the engine and had a look underneath in case there was a gapping hole in the sump or something

Pi$$ing me off now

[tdm850rider]

Check your timing, may be the plug is firing after the piston has gone past TDC... the more extra room the louder the backfire?

[masterbrewer]

<!--quoteo(post=23330:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 07:49 AM:name=robelst)-->QUOTE(robelst @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just found some interesting looking tips on checking and setting the TDM's chain-tensioner. Apparently (and not surprisingly of course) the position needed to correctly tie up the chain is a measure for wear. Also, it's not uncommon the tensioner can get sticky and even blocked (!), inspiring ignorant dealers to replace all bits at ridiculously low mileages and happily cash-in, while 50-70k miles should easily be achievable. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Hi Robelst,

Curious about the interesting tips for checking & setting the chain tensioner you found as I want to check mine.

After I bounced my '92 on the right side crash bar there seems to be extra rattly chain noises coming from the cam chain area. Can't see why the noise should have started as no damage was done to the motor except maybe some jarring.

[iand1947]

Has it struck anybody that the title of this thread is a good description of yer average hairy-a***d Scottish pub?

[dandywarhol]

<!--quoteo(post=23585:date=Sun 3rd Dec 2006, 11:52 AM:name=Pict)-->QUOTE(Pict @ Sun 3rd Dec 2006, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Has it struck anybody that the title of this thread is a good description of yer average hairy-a***d Scottish pub?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Errmmm........not until now Pict - strange how your mind works

[iand1947]

<!--quoteo(post=23586:date=Sun 3rd Dec 2006, 11:00 AM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Sun 3rd Dec 2006, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Errmmm........not <!--coloro:#CC0000--><!--/coloro-->until now<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--> Pict - strange how your mind works <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
..but it's obviously catching, eh?

[robelst]

<!--quoteo(post=23361:date=Fri 1st Dec 2006, 10:55 AM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Fri 1st Dec 2006, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Looking forward to your findings robelst....................I'd enough of a scare with camchain rattle to pull it apart during last summers eurotrip (see Daplebs blog for all the incompetant details )<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well then, not sure if these are "tips" or just plain standard procedure but perhaps it will be useful to some:

Take off the right-hand-side engine mount plate and hook-out clutch-cable (don't worry, the engine won't fall out )
Now the tensioner bolt and base are in reach.
Turn out tensioner bolt from the cemter of the base, there's a double spring behind it so be careful it doesn't shoot out.
Now take the two small bolts out and take off the base plate and pull out the tensioner-arm.
The tensioner can be adjusted over 16 clicks. Carefully pull out the tensioner arm and count how many clicks are left. Also check if the tensioner-arms moves smoothly (clean and oil if not, or replace the thing, it's around 40 quid apparently).
If no clicks are left and your chain is loud, you know its worn. (Mine only had one hesitant click left, so I will soon be looking at a rather unpleasant job ).

Now push the tensioner arm all the way back in, and put the assembly back (don't put bolts back yet). Now use a bolt or screwdriver and carefully push the tensioner inside the engine until a gentle pressure can be felt. Count the clicks while doing this so you know how far deep it's in. If all seems well, put the spring and bolts back in.

Oh and connect clutch again and put engine mount back on


If you use this procedure after having replaced the chain, first try turning the crank manually rather than optimistically firing up the engine: If you made a mistake with the timing and a valve touches the piston, the difference in damage might be considerable

[Guest]

got 74K miles out of my chain and tensioner with no problems, so the design seems sound enough to me
suppose it helped that it only ever ran on Motul 300V fully synth at £40 / 4L

[Guest]

<!--quoteo(post=23680:date=Sun 3rd Dec 2006, 08:03 PM:name=GuyGraham)-->QUOTE(GuyGraham @ Sun 3rd Dec 2006, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->got 74K miles out of my chain and tensioner with no problems, so the design seems sound enough to me
suppose it helped that it only ever ran on Motul 300V fully synth at £40 / 4L<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got my last one to over 100,000 miles on the original camchain & tensioner, it got cheap oil, and was regularly abused...............................................sexually

[dandywarhol]

Thanks robelst.........that will only apply to the 850 - the 900 has a different setup, the same as the R6 and R1 uses - no ratchet.

Before you remove the tensioner it is imperative the timing is set to TDc on cylinder 1 (left hand) otherwise the timing chain will jump I found out the hard way by setting it up on cylinder 2

This post was last modified: 03-12-2006, 10:34 PM by dandywarhol.