TDM Pressure Gauge

[ehakun]

<!--fontoalatino Linotype--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:2--><!--/sizeo-->Hi Guys,
I'm thinking of adding a pressure gauge to my 97 model TDM.
One of the Carpe members published a way to do it by adding oil pressure switch instead of the Banjo bolt (there is no lack of pressure in that area) here it is:http://jbx9.free.fr/TDM/index.php?show=text&page=OPSW
I was wondering if someone tried it and where can I get the listed parts I only managed to find the pressure switch but didn't have any luck with the required adaptor .
Any information will be highly appreciated as I travel 100km every day and oil level/pressure is crucial/annoying thing!
Thanks.<!--fontc-->
<!--/fontc--><!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->

This post was last modified: 20-11-2006, 12:44 AM by tdm850rider.

[LIAW]

<!--quoteo(post=21256:date=Thu 9th Nov 2006, 06:43 AM:name=teedeemmm)-->QUOTE(teedeemmm @ Thu 9th Nov 2006, 06:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--fontoalatino Linotype--><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:2--><!--/sizeo-->Hi Guys,
I'm thinking of adding a pressure gauge to my 97 model TDM.
One of the Carpe members published a way to do it by adding oil pressure switch instead of the Banjo bolt (there is no lack of pressure in that area) here it is:http://jbx9.free.fr/TDM/index.php?show=text&page=OPSW
I was wondering if someone tried it and where can I get the listed parts I only managed to find the pressure switch but didn't have any luck with the required adaptor .
Any information will be highly appreciated as I travel 100km every day and oil level/pressure is crucial/annoying thing!
Thanks.<!--fontc-->
<!--/fontc--><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

just out of curiosity but why do you want an oil pressure guage?

This post was last modified: 20-11-2006, 12:43 AM by tdm850rider.

[peter-may]

<!--quoteo(post=21262:date=Thu 9th Nov 2006, 10:02 AM:name=laughin in a windstorm)-->QUOTE(laughin in a windstorm @ Thu 9th Nov 2006, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->just out of curiosity but why do you want an oil pressure guage?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

good idea to fit a gauge. if you know the "normal" running oil pressure, a good gauge can be a great early warning system. in he same way a volts / ammeter can save you from starting probs. i'll look at this tommorrow if poss. meanwhile good luck and be sure to post your results. (just going out to see if saga do discounts on RTT's !!! big 50 today wahaayyyy !!)

[ehakun]

<!--quoteo(post=21262:date=Thu 9th Nov 2006, 10:02 AM:name=laughin in a windstorm)-->QUOTE(laughin in a windstorm @ Thu 9th Nov 2006, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->just out of curiosity but why do you want an oil pressure guage?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have one then you already know how difficult and annoying it is to check the oil level!!!
A way of monitoring the oil level is by adding a pressure gauge. When the oil level decrease so is the oil pressure, after a few trials you’ll know how much oil to add according to the current lpressure evel, one more thing to remember is that there is a pressure release valve that will cause the needle to rotate on both direction in a certain amplitude, this swivel should be ignored.

[dandywarhol]

<!--quoteo(post=21310:date=Thu 9th Nov 2006, 07:32 PM:name=teedeemmm)-->QUOTE(teedeemmm @ Thu 9th Nov 2006, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you have one then you already know how difficult and annoying it is to check the oil level!!!
A way of monitoring the oil level is by adding a pressure gauge. When the oil level decrease so is the oil pressure, after a few trials you’ll know how much oil to add according to the current lpressure evel, one more thing to remember is that there is a pressure release valve that will cause the needle to rotate on both direction in a certain amplitude, this swivel should be ignored.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Teedeemmm....................if you rely on that method you're going to end up with a blown motor!

The oil pressure in the TDM is low as it's a dry sump system and a second pump takes it back to the tank. The pressure remains constant until the pump cannot pick any more oil up and the pressure is then zero - TOO LATE!
Better to use the Yamaha method of testing the oil level - a pressure guage should be secondary.

[LIAW]

<!--quoteo(post=21336:date=Thu 9th Nov 2006, 10:52 PM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Thu 9th Nov 2006, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The oil pressure in the TDM is low as it's a dry sump system and a second pump takes it back to the tank. The pressure remains constant until the pump cannot pick any more oil up and the pressure is then zero - TOO LATE!
Better to use the Yamaha method of testing the oil level - a pressure guage should be secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

this is why I asked

[ehakun]

<!--quoteo(post=21336:date=Fri 10th Nov 2006, 12:52 AM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Fri 10th Nov 2006, 12:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Teedeemmm....................if you rely on that method you're going to end up with a blown motor!

The oil pressure in the TDM is low as it's a dry sump system and a second pump takes it back to the tank. The pressure remains constant until the pump cannot pick any more oil up and the pressure is then zero - TOO LATE!
Better to use the Yamaha method of testing the oil level - a pressure guage should be secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As for the existence of two pumps I agree, feed and scavenge. What I don’t understand is how both pumps can build and sustain a constant pressure when the oil volume decrees?? (Let us assume it runs on idle and the engine consume the oil)

[dapleb]

If you measured at the tank, then you could in theory measure the pressure variations there and tell when the tank is low. But it would need to be a very sensitive guage.

The pump, pumps at a constant pressure (ignoring variations in temp etc etc). So as long as it has oil...it will pump at that pressure...as soon as it doesnt have oil...it won't...and its too late.

Boop
dapleb

[ehakun]

<!--quoteo(post=21370:date=Fri 10th Nov 2006, 01:56 PM:name=dapleb)-->QUOTE(dapleb @ Fri 10th Nov 2006, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you measured at the tank, then you could in theory measure the pressure variations there and tell when the tank is low. But it would need to be a very sensitive guage.

The pump, pumps at a constant pressure (ignoring variations in temp etc etc). So as long as it has oil...it will pump at that pressure...as soon as it doesnt have oil...it won't...and its too late.

Boop
dapleb<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[ehakun]

Sorry I pressed the right button too early!!!

I'm replacing the lower left Banjo bolt with an adaptor so basically it is straight from the oil tank after the feed pump! Since the pressure is 0.6 bars I'm planning to use 1bar analog gauge.
I think it will work just fine but I'll pay close attention to the oil level using the old method while observing the oil pressure gauge behavior.
When I'll finish it (or the engine, )I'll post the results.
Thank you all.

[dapleb]

<!--quoteo(post=21395:date=Fri 10th Nov 2006, 03:13 PM:name=teedeemmm)-->QUOTE(teedeemmm @ Fri 10th Nov 2006, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When I'll finish it (or the engine, )I'll post the results.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Please do, I am interested to know what you find.

[ehakun]

<!--quoteo(post=21396:date=Fri 10th Nov 2006, 05:16 PM:name=dapleb)-->QUOTE(dapleb @ Fri 10th Nov 2006, 05:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Please do, I am interested to know what you find. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Intermediate report,
I went to a craftsman to build an adaptor and replaced it with the lower left banjo bolt. I’ve attached a 1 bar pressure gauge and rout it upward above the radiator.
When I Start the engine(cold) it produce a high pressure above 1 bar so I'm unable to read the pressure, when it warm up the pressure decrees slowly and settles between 0.4 to 0.6 bars .
Now I need to add a couple of hundred kilometers to my bike in order to monitor the pressure gauge/oil behavior.
That’s all for now.

[dandywarhol]

I'd also be interested in your findings Teedeemmm........0.6 bar is just a figure to relate to as plain bearing crankshafts need much higher pressure to maintain reliability. The scavange pump draws oil back at a lower rate than the feed pump (otherwise the engine would starve of oil) so I guess 0.6 bar is the balance between the 2 pumps

[masterbrewer]

I think this is going to be a very beneficial thread for all oil thirsty TDMs

Thanks teedeemmm & others who are contributing.

My '92 850 has a pressure sender half way up the left cylinder, which I understand is on the return line.

There is a light, left of the neutral light and goes out at about 1500rpm (cold) & when quite hot about 3,000 to 3,500rpm.

I'm not sure of the pressure, but I was told by a major Yamaha dealer in Adelaide that TDM's generally have lower pressure than other bikes because of their bigger oil galleries.

Basically he said that if you have a gauge & the light goes out it's good.

My TDM doen't seem to use that much oil except on long constant high revs/highspeed trips.

Lookin forward to the next instalment.



Cheers

[wicklamulla]

<!--quoteo(post=22237:date=Sun 19th Nov 2006, 08:31 AM:name=masterbrewer)-->QUOTE(masterbrewer @ Sun 19th Nov 2006, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->

I think this is going to be a very beneficial thread for all oil thirsty TDMs

Thanks teedeemmm & others who are contributing.

My '92 850 has a pressure sender half way up the left cylinder, which I understand is on the return line.

There is a light, left of the neutral light and goes out at about 1500rpm (cold) & when quite hot about 3,000 to 3,500rpm.

I'm not sure of the pressure, but I was told by a major Yamaha dealer in Adelaide that TDM's generally have lower pressure than other bikes because of their bigger oil galleries.

Basically he said that if you have a gauge & the light goes out it's good.

My TDM doen't seem to use that much oil except on long constant high revs/highspeed trips.

Lookin forward to the next instalment.



Cheers<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


hey MB did you fit the oil light or wassit ont bike when u purrrrrrrrrrrcahsed it ??? got any pics fer us to peruse please ??

[alan]

<!--quoteo(post=22239:date=Sun 19th Nov 2006, 09:24 AM:name=wicklamulla)-->QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Sun 19th Nov 2006, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->hey MB did you fit the oil light or wassit ont bike when u purrrrrrrrrrrcahsed it ??? got any pics fer us to peruse please ??<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


This i found on the JBX site http://jbx9.free.fr/TDM/index.php?show=text&page=OPSW

[dandywarhol]

<!--quoteo(post=22237:date=Sun 19th Nov 2006, 09:31 AM:name=masterbrewer)-->QUOTE(masterbrewer @ Sun 19th Nov 2006, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->

I think this is going to be a very beneficial thread for all oil thirsty TDMs

Thanks teedeemmm & others who are contributing.

My '92 850 has a pressure sender half way up the left cylinder, which I understand is on the return line.

There is a light, left of the neutral light and goes out at about 1500rpm (cold) & when quite hot about 3,000 to 3,500rpm.

I'm not sure of the pressure, but I was told by a major Yamaha dealer in Adelaide that TDM's generally have lower pressure than other bikes because of their bigger oil galleries.

Basically he said that if you have a gauge & the light goes out it's good.

My TDM doen't seem to use that much oil except on long constant high revs/highspeed trips.

Lookin forward to the next instalment.



Cheers<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it must be an auto, wet sump type of gauge then if it only goes out at that rpm. An engine with plain type crank bearings needs to have around 2 (30psi) bar pressure at idle and 4/5 bar (60/75 psi) under load otherwise the bearings will have no protective oil layer between them and the hard steel crank surfaces. The con rods and bearings (and the main bearings) actually "float" on pressurised oil so that no metal to metal contact is made. Thats the reason you should never rev an engine after an oil change for around 5 or 6 seconds to allow the pressure to build up in the filter and galleries...........otherwise the crank could get damaged.

[wicklamulla]

<!--quoteo(post=22257:date=Sun 19th Nov 2006, 11:28 AM:name=dandywarhol)-->QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Sun 19th Nov 2006, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So it must be an auto, wet sump type of gauge then if it only goes out at that rpm. An engine with plain type crank bearings needs to have around 2 (30psi) bar pressure at idle and 4/5 bar (60/75 psi) under load otherwise the bearings will have no protective oil layer between them and the hard steel crank surfaces. The con rods and bearings (and the main bearings) <!--coloro:#FF0000--><!--/coloro-->actually "float" on pressurised o<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->il so that no metal to metal contact is made. Thats the reason you should never rev an engine after an oil change for around 5 or 6 seconds to allow the pressure to build up in the filter and galleries...........otherwise the crank could get damaged.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


wow i never knew that ! bit like those trains that run just above a magnetic rail but never actually touch it ! odd analagy i know but tis the furst thang that came to mind.

[dandywarhol]

I thought you might've used a dry ride as an analogy Wickla................

[masterbrewer]

Here's some pics of my oil pressure gauge already on the bike when I got it

Oil pressure dash light just left of the neutral light where there is normally no light.

Oil pressure sender

With all the talk of oil use I made up a way to carry extra oil away from normal luggage using 90mm PVC tubing.

Oil bottle &/or anything else that will fit in the carrying tubes ie puncture repair stuff, tools, beer cans etc

PVC luggage tubes

Cheers