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Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - aytcat - 09-01-2012

Against EU Member States Introducing Mandatory High Visibility Clothing For Motorcyclists

Responsible department: Department for Transport

We the undersigned urge the British Government to put pressure on the European Commission to discipline any member state that imposes clothing standards on motorcycle riders. We view any such requirement as an expression of prejudice against motorcyclists and a barrier to the free movement of people within the EU. With regard to the current proposals on mandatory high visibility clothing being considered by some member states, we consider this to be ill advised and naïve. We challenge the speculation that high visibility clothing will reduce accidents involving motorcyclists. We question the right of motorists to hold driving licenses if they are incapable of seeing a rider and motorcycle unless clad in high visibility clothing. We challenge the logic that imposes unreasonable requirements on the victims of accidents in order to accommodate the failings of those who cause them

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/26931


Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - MikCoshell - 09-01-2012

Done

Mik

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - markallinson - 10-01-2012

Done.

My mate was wearing a hi vis vest when we were out the other day on the bikes. He was leading, a car pulled out right in front of him, why? He did bloody look, so hi vis or not he didn't see my mate. Accident was thankfully avoided.

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - markallinson - 10-01-2012

So this stupid frigging law has already been passed in Ireland and France, WTF???

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - zardoz - 10-01-2012

MAG Ireland recently did a survey of bikers opinions on proposed Hi-viz legislation.
I think the most telling quote is from one rider who is also a bus driver.


"Being a bus driver i can safely say a hi-vis vest won’t stop or even help with people that don’t look and pull out in-front of a bike, I mean the bus is 2 story’s high and bright yellow and you still get people pulling out in front of that and claiming they didn’t see it…"


What more can one say?

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - Chris - 10-01-2012

<!--quoteo(post=230331:date=Tue 10th Jan 2012, 11:56 AM:name=maximuspetrolhead)-->QUOTE(maximuspetrolhead @ Tue 10th Jan 2012, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So this stupid frigging law has already been passed in Ireland and France, WTF???<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If it has, no one here knows about it...

Stu, you might have some info?

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - Studley Ramrod - 10-01-2012

It's not mandatory in Ireland until 2014, and in France it's in 2013, but only for riders with bikes over 125cc [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img]

Some info from the MAG Ireland site....... http://www.magireland.org/2012/campaigns/h...ctive-material/

MAG Ireland has learned that the French government recently announced mandatory retro reflective clothing for French riders of all motorcycles and trikes in excess of 125cc from January 1st 2013.

This is a worrying development as the French authorities have decided on a course of action for which there is no evidence of effectiveness, and in the face of some of the largest demonstrations ever seen in Europe by French riders in June and September of 2011.

We understand the regulations stipulate 150 square centimetres of retro reflective material (for context, this is roughly the equivalent of a strip 1 foot long by 2 inches high), although it’s unclear as to what form this will have to take. Most sources appear to suggest that an armband will suffice, although there is no official confirmation of this one way or another. Pillion passengers will also have to comply. The measure is one of a number of proposals aimed at improving road safety which include increased fines and points for a number of road traffic offences such as using a mobile phone while driving as well as a ban on speed trap location warnings of the sort commonly provided by satnav units and smart phones.

Sooooooo, somehow the powers that be seem to think that wearing a High vis armband will increase your safety on the road [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rotflmmfao.gif[/img] FFS ! SMIDSY.. your arms are skinny !

This is what the Euro MP's spend our hard earned taxes on.......how sad is that !

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - jdelfino - 10-01-2012



In Catalonia ( Barcelona-Spain) is mandatory for the whores that work the roads to wear a high visibility vest [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rotflmmfao.gif[/img]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJzaOFuGnMY

I read that they were happy with the law, they say business are up with the extra visibility! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clapping.gif[/img]

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - sidestand - 10-01-2012

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rotflmmfao.gif[/img]

Wonder if they have to use these as well ?? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

[Image: b5de1d7e-fac6-4f42-b434-2cd68190842a.jpg]

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - TKH - 10-01-2012

[quote name='Studley Ramrod' date='Tue 10th Jan 2012, 03:03 PM' post='230344']
It's not mandatory in Ireland until 2014, and in France it's in 2013, but only for riders with bikes over 125cc [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img]

Soooo if you're on a moped or scooter you have a much better chance of being seen? Or are 125 and under riders expendable? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img]

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - dapleb - 10-01-2012

There are so many peeps wearing fluoro things nowadays it is more loikely to make ya blend in than stand ooot.

Almost a stamp that shows the Health and Safety brigade have got ya. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

Would love to see some PROPER studies conducted on this. Does it make you feel safer, less cautious, more loikely to have a prang? Does it increase yer chances of being seen significantly? So many questions....have no clue what the answers are though.

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - Johnlaas - 10-01-2012

I would have thought France problem was amongest those in the group excluded by this legislation - not that I agree with it. My view is that it does not matter what you are wearing or riding with lights on etc because if the cage driver is not going too see you it will not make one bit of difference.

I would have thought regular, mandatory, sight tests would be more useful.




Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - markallinson - 10-01-2012

I've got a DT125R which I used for commuting to work (7 miles of back roads). I had loads of cars (and a bus!) pull out in front of me. It was such a problem that I bought a full hi vis jacket to wear over my bike kit. Guess what,made no frigging difference at all. Cars still pulled out in front of me, perhaps it was because I was on a 125?

Some cars pull out because they don't look,
some pull out because they don't care, ' it's only a bike', ' they're going slow', 'I've got time / room' etc. etc.
Some do make a genuine mistake.

Last week a mate and I were out for a ride on the bikes, him up front with his hi vis vest on. Mr BMW car driver doesn't look and pulls out on him. No accident but could have been.

Hi Vis just doesn't work. If you cant see a 55 watt headlight what frigging difference will a bloody reflective jacket make?

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ranting.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ranting.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ranting.gif[/img] ARGH rant over.....

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - NZTDMGUY - 10-01-2012

Here in New Zealand our idiotic Bikers Association has recommended to the Government that we also adopt the Hi Vis practice.

It has started a discussion based on SMIDSY (sorry mate I didn't see you) versus SMIDC (sorry mate, I don't care).

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthre...SY-versus-SMIDC

I think the latter is more correct. No offense intended to any bus or truck drivers on this forum but I think most motorists operate on the theory that size does matter, the bigger you are the more of your rights you can impose on others. Think how often a truck or bus pulls out in front of your car, safe in the knowledge that you will avoid it.

Cheers from NZ

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - TonyDevil - 11-01-2012

i dont think a normal reflective jacket makes a difference

i have however noticed a difference while wearing this one....
[Image: 314057_10150292519422669_622642668_80139...8734_n.jpg]
its waterproof & breathable, has a hood that goes inside my lid to create a complete seal and the blue bits cause a lot of double-takes from other motorists
cant imagine what they mistake me for [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

<!--quoteo(post=230379:date=Tue 10th Jan 2012, 08:49 PM:name=dapleb)-->QUOTE(dapleb @ Tue 10th Jan 2012, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There are so many peeps wearing fluoro things nowadays it is more loikely to make ya blend in than stand ooot.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->that be the problem
i'm quite happy being the odd one out, more chance of being noticed


Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - TDMTAM - 11-01-2012

<!--quoteo(post=230526:date=Wed 11th Jan 2012, 08:49 PM:name=TonyDevil)-->QUOTE(TonyDevil @ Wed 11th Jan 2012, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->[Image: 314057_10150292519422669_622642668_80139...8734_n.jpg]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Evening all!

TAM

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - apw99 - 11-01-2012

I don't believe that bikers should be forced to wear hi-viz. The reason I say this is biking by its nature, at least for me, can be summed up with one word and that's 'freedom'. Government bodies trying to legislate against the wish of most bikers is not a positive thing as it opposes the very nature of the activity and the folks who participate. There will be a lot of energy invested in opposing this I believe. Bikers in the main hurt themselves and not others, while hoodies go around in 200bhp Honda Civics on provisional licenses causing carnage, there is something wrong with all this.
Having said that I cannot imagine that hi-viz does NOT reduce accidents. I know lots of people say that they still get cars pulling out but in reality they cannot quantify how many cars would have pulled out if they did not have the hi-viz? This is a difficult to analyze I know. It is not that drivers don't 'see' the bus/car/bike, it's that their driving habits and practices are not allowing them to physically see the object, so true hi-viz may not make a big difference in some cases. However even where the driving practice is correct it is possible to miss a bike, I have done it and I bet several more on this forum have done likewise. Another factor is drivers in the main do not 'expect' to see a bike, they look for a car. Having hi-viz and driving lights along with bright helmets increases your chance of being seen in those marginal situations and might mean that you get to have dinner with your kids 20mins later none the wiser. Educating drivers is the key to ensuring they DO expect to see a bike, which is what progressive road authorities are focusing on.
Sorry to drag this down to a serious note [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] but biking for me is about the freedom and enjoyment, but keeping all my bits in the right place and doing whatever I can to increase the odds of that is paramount.

Cheers! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif[/img]
APW

Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - TonyDevil - 11-01-2012

can you see me now?

[Image: 402717_10150491855372795_517477794_87499...4984_n.jpg]

[Image: 395967_10150491860267795_517477794_87499...5685_n.jpg]

[Image: 391089_10150491856677795_517477794_87499...5102_n.jpg]


Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - chrislarkin - 12-01-2012

[quote name='TonyDevil' date='Wed 11th Jan 2012, 10:55 PM' post='230561']
can you see me now?

[Image: 402717_10150491855372795_517477794_87499...4984_n.jpg]

Are you the one on the sofa?

Seriously though as a permanent wearer of a flouro jacket I like that suit. Details please.


Law Now Passed In France And Ireland - TonyDevil - 12-01-2012

standard workmen style over trousers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150687784284

the jacket is a specific model of ex-police
its the one with the 4 radio clips, adjustable cuffs and that does up high around the neck
cant find any on ebay at the moment, will keep an eye out for one
this is the guy i bought mine from http://stores.ebay.co.uk/The-Police-Box-Shop